I definitely understand your frustration, discourse online about topics like this can be maddeningly polarising, to the point where I also just reflexively tune them out. Which is a shame because I feel like there is an interesting conversation to be had if it's done respectfully!
I can see the validity of both sides of the argument, and in my opinion they point towards an interesting problem in terms of how we can sustain a flourishing global civil society in which different cultures and religions can come together despite adhering to mutually irreconcilable values.
I'm not French myself, but I know a fair bit about French culture because one side of my family comes from a former French colony, and I have relatives on that side of the family that have married French people and live in France.
Based on this, I would say that my answer to the question "What has this got to do with the Olympics?" is that, from my understanding, an Olympics opening ceremony is meant to showcase the culture and contributions of the host country to the world. And strange as it may seem, I would say that that's French culture!
An important stream of French culture since the late 18th century has been transgressive by design. It's all about celebrating throwing off the shackles of the former dominance of the Catholic church and the king over society by questioning everything and not giving a hoot what people think! I think that's what the ceremony was trying to convey. Of course against that tendency there's always been the Catholic and conservative backlash, but if we're thinking about what are contributions of France to global culture, Voltaire, Diderot, Simone de Beauvoir etc. are always going to rank more highly than de Maistre. Many places have been conservative and catholic, but there's only ever been one Voltaire, and who else but the French could have thought up something as crazy as "Un Chien Andalou"?
So that's the case for French weirdness as being appropriate to the Olympics. But on the other side, while I'm not religious myself, I can respect your position as a Christian who isn't crazy about tuning into a TV ceremony and seeing the symbols of Christianity being profaned. In my opinion, there's not really a neat solution to this unfortunately. In my view, I can understand where the French are coming from in that Christianity is part of their heritage too, so in a sense they have a right to use and interpret those symbols as they see fit (if they had been profaning Buddhist or Hindu symbols I think that would have just been plain weird).
This situation reminds me a bit of when Qatar hosted the World Cup back in 2022. At that time, many Westerners expressed anger towards Qatar's banning of LGBT rights and poor protections for the workers who built its football stadiums. But on the other hand, many of my Middle eastern and Pakistani friends were really frustrated by these complaints as they felt this politicising the world cup and diminishing a non-western country's moment to shine, which I get.
I think it was the philosopher Seyla Benhabib who said that in a multicultural society, there won't always be a neat or easy way to resolve disagreements. That's applies doubly so to global civil society. If there is a kind of solution I would say it's this: when it's France's turn to host the Olympics, they're entitled to celebrate their individualistic and transgressive culture, even if it makes others a little uncomfortable. But when it's say, Russia's turn to host, we in the West can't complain when their ceremony is more conservative and less LGBT friendly.
Thank you for explaining the French side! I understand that their culture has a strong tradition of exploring blasphemy or something like that. So, I suppose, it's understandable?
But to me, what's not so understandable is why they don't make it at least beautiful, and artistic. Ok, I better see myself out lol.
What you said about Qatar, I felt that frustration too, and when it happened I sighed.
I like this “my eyes hurt” phrase. It reminds me of one similar that I read in a novel somewhere where the speaker says “my eyes blistered” when he saw something ugly. Good post!
I have been reading news here in Vietnam about this years Olympics and there seems to be a frustration with the West's politically correct agenda being pushed upon to other countries. Vietnam is very tolerant of trans culture, with trans culture playing a crucial roles in religion as well as entertainment. They are not Christian, but still find it objectionable. Some people in Vietnam also find casual male topless nudity to be objectionable at certain locations, so there is no double standard here. Many are saying the opening ceremony was unprofessional and that the Chinese opening ceremony was so much better. The West has lost a bit more cultural influence after the Olympics this year. I would like to suggest that Malaysians are feeling the same feeling Vietnamese are experiencing, that the opening ceremony conflated overt sexuality with a good performance and failed miserably.
Yes that's precisely right. You captured the point of view of not just the Vietnamese but many South East Asians. We are just exhausted having their agendas pushed on us. As the West controls most of English speaking media you hardly get other opinions unless you go looking for it. And then there's this thing they just ignore us because "we don't know better".
But this is the timeline we are living in so we have to cope with it 😴
As someone who was raised Christian, had a neoclassical education, but now considers herself more Taoist philosophy, I’d like to offer this opinion by a Baptist preacher: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/kFSfe4pEhYN1PBi6/?
(I know I’m privileged enough to have recognised a weirdly blue Dionysius – did you see Chinese memes about him looking like a character in Journey to the West? – and the tableau for what it is.)
I definitely understand your frustration, discourse online about topics like this can be maddeningly polarising, to the point where I also just reflexively tune them out. Which is a shame because I feel like there is an interesting conversation to be had if it's done respectfully!
I can see the validity of both sides of the argument, and in my opinion they point towards an interesting problem in terms of how we can sustain a flourishing global civil society in which different cultures and religions can come together despite adhering to mutually irreconcilable values.
I'm not French myself, but I know a fair bit about French culture because one side of my family comes from a former French colony, and I have relatives on that side of the family that have married French people and live in France.
Based on this, I would say that my answer to the question "What has this got to do with the Olympics?" is that, from my understanding, an Olympics opening ceremony is meant to showcase the culture and contributions of the host country to the world. And strange as it may seem, I would say that that's French culture!
An important stream of French culture since the late 18th century has been transgressive by design. It's all about celebrating throwing off the shackles of the former dominance of the Catholic church and the king over society by questioning everything and not giving a hoot what people think! I think that's what the ceremony was trying to convey. Of course against that tendency there's always been the Catholic and conservative backlash, but if we're thinking about what are contributions of France to global culture, Voltaire, Diderot, Simone de Beauvoir etc. are always going to rank more highly than de Maistre. Many places have been conservative and catholic, but there's only ever been one Voltaire, and who else but the French could have thought up something as crazy as "Un Chien Andalou"?
So that's the case for French weirdness as being appropriate to the Olympics. But on the other side, while I'm not religious myself, I can respect your position as a Christian who isn't crazy about tuning into a TV ceremony and seeing the symbols of Christianity being profaned. In my opinion, there's not really a neat solution to this unfortunately. In my view, I can understand where the French are coming from in that Christianity is part of their heritage too, so in a sense they have a right to use and interpret those symbols as they see fit (if they had been profaning Buddhist or Hindu symbols I think that would have just been plain weird).
This situation reminds me a bit of when Qatar hosted the World Cup back in 2022. At that time, many Westerners expressed anger towards Qatar's banning of LGBT rights and poor protections for the workers who built its football stadiums. But on the other hand, many of my Middle eastern and Pakistani friends were really frustrated by these complaints as they felt this politicising the world cup and diminishing a non-western country's moment to shine, which I get.
I think it was the philosopher Seyla Benhabib who said that in a multicultural society, there won't always be a neat or easy way to resolve disagreements. That's applies doubly so to global civil society. If there is a kind of solution I would say it's this: when it's France's turn to host the Olympics, they're entitled to celebrate their individualistic and transgressive culture, even if it makes others a little uncomfortable. But when it's say, Russia's turn to host, we in the West can't complain when their ceremony is more conservative and less LGBT friendly.
Thank you for explaining the French side! I understand that their culture has a strong tradition of exploring blasphemy or something like that. So, I suppose, it's understandable?
But to me, what's not so understandable is why they don't make it at least beautiful, and artistic. Ok, I better see myself out lol.
What you said about Qatar, I felt that frustration too, and when it happened I sighed.
As to why they couldn't have made it a bit more aesthetically pleasing, that is a question I don't have an answer for! Haha
I’ll take the Greek mythology reading kid bias any day! ⚡️
I like this “my eyes hurt” phrase. It reminds me of one similar that I read in a novel somewhere where the speaker says “my eyes blistered” when he saw something ugly. Good post!
Thanks for reading, Tim!
I have been reading news here in Vietnam about this years Olympics and there seems to be a frustration with the West's politically correct agenda being pushed upon to other countries. Vietnam is very tolerant of trans culture, with trans culture playing a crucial roles in religion as well as entertainment. They are not Christian, but still find it objectionable. Some people in Vietnam also find casual male topless nudity to be objectionable at certain locations, so there is no double standard here. Many are saying the opening ceremony was unprofessional and that the Chinese opening ceremony was so much better. The West has lost a bit more cultural influence after the Olympics this year. I would like to suggest that Malaysians are feeling the same feeling Vietnamese are experiencing, that the opening ceremony conflated overt sexuality with a good performance and failed miserably.
Yes that's precisely right. You captured the point of view of not just the Vietnamese but many South East Asians. We are just exhausted having their agendas pushed on us. As the West controls most of English speaking media you hardly get other opinions unless you go looking for it. And then there's this thing they just ignore us because "we don't know better".
But this is the timeline we are living in so we have to cope with it 😴
As someone who was raised Christian, had a neoclassical education, but now considers herself more Taoist philosophy, I’d like to offer this opinion by a Baptist preacher: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/kFSfe4pEhYN1PBi6/?
(I know I’m privileged enough to have recognised a weirdly blue Dionysius – did you see Chinese memes about him looking like a character in Journey to the West? – and the tableau for what it is.)
*philosophically
ARRRGGHHHH lol