Well said. And it needed to be said. Hard truths must be told.
However, I'm a big believer in how entrenched cultural values are. And let's face it, the bulk of Americans living in America now (unless they are of African origin or are native Americans) all descended from people who fled their homelands to live somewhere else instead of staying to fight to make it better. That's part of the American myth - I can always go somewhere else to make a better life for myself. And it's all part of the deep seated idea of individualism - which is not about sacrificing yourself for the greater good but thinking only of your own good.
When I read this very eloquently written essay, I kept nodding my head, because you have spoken about things that I've kept in my mind but found difficult to explain to other Americans. As I grew up in a British colony, I can see the dynamics between the colonizers and the colonized on an instinctual level. A few years ago, my ex started to play with the idea of moving to Thailand, and moved ever closer to his dream year by year while betraying me and flaunting what a great life he could have even though he was not rich. I reacted to his "discovery" of this "utopia" with cynicism. I felt that he was approaching this in the spirit of a white colonialist. After visiting with him, I saw how the local people fawned for the American and European tourists and expats -- for their own survival. (I can tell that they are just trying to tolerate them because they need them for the economy.) Secretly I felt sorry for them having to bow to the neo-colonialists. I have also heard tons of Americans saying they want to move to Asia -- and yes, there's even a YT channel that talks exclusively about moving to Malaysia to live like a King. They wouldn't want to hear that Asians want them there only because they can bring money in with their strong currency. Perhaps they don't even care. In some expat forums I have seen Westerners (Americans, Australians, etc.) assuming they can just go live in a European country as a digital nomad without paying local tax. The most entitled (and disgusting) branch of this neo-colonialism (I'm not sure if this word exists; if not, I just coined it?... sorry, I'm too exhausted to do research) is those "Passport Bros." My ex became one, and hence, he became my "ex." I remember telling him how I felt bad about getting a massage in Thailand for just a few US dollars... I felt this power imbalance as if reliving my colonized past but with my position swapped. My conscience didn't feel so good. But he could not understand why I wouldn't take advantage of the situation.
I appreciate your perspective of how Malaysians stay to work toward the kind of society they want to see, with lots of ups and downs, despite the difficulties.
I do believe the majority of Americans are staying due to the lack of choices and conditions to move, but I don't have the numbers. From the noises around the Internet, it seems an increasingly number are wanting to leave. This makes me feel that when the going gets tough, they just 拍拍屁股 then leave. Perhaps the desire of moving to greener pastures is ingrained in the American psyche. The country is so young compared with the rest of the world, and people have such amnesia of their history. So the idea of sticking together and uniting to fight for what's best for citizens isn't a strong one.
I agree that the polarized political bickering needs to stop in order for people to be united. But at this moment, too much damage has been made, and we have very dangerous sociopaths at the top of the government. So the worse probably will happen before the Tao☯️ brings everything back into balance again.
> I felt that he was approaching this in the spirit of a white colonialist.
Really impactful words. I think a lot of these folks moving to Asia do not realise that they can come off this way, especially if they crow non-stop about how bloody cheap we are.
I'm so glad you get it because honestly I'm sure a lot of people are saying I'm being too sensitive.
Honestly, it's very difficult to put into words the feelings I go through when I see people using geo arbitrage to get a more luxurious life in my country.
On the one hand, they were not the ones who created this unfair financial system that has trapped my country. (I know too much about how dollar dominance came to be, etc, to view it neutrally.) On the other hand, I'm turned off that they dislike their country so much and yet do not acknowledge the privilege it has given them. And yet, it's not about them being unpatriotic but something else. Like, somehow, they're using us in some way.... like I said, it's pretty difficult to say this clearly to people because people who firmly believe they can simply move to a country that is cheaper would get defensive that a descendant of immigrants had the gall to challenge their idea that they can move countries for a better life.
It's just not the same time like that of the time of the Mayflower ship (and honestly, that immigration wave wasn't exactly great for Native Americans at all) or even my ancestors who fled the collapse of the Ming dynasty to "Nanyang".
Countries have borders and immigration rules now, even little Malaysia, and most certainly China who was very upfront about them not being a country open to immigration.
What I find is that these folks seem upset that we have these rules when people from China and Malaysia immigrate freely abroad.
To me, every country has a right to decide for themselves, and no one is entitled to march over to a countries without abiding by these restrictions and rules. A country has a right not to accept migrants. If they have a problem with Chinese immigrants, they need to come up with immigration rules too. But they can't or won't because immigrants bring them money and add to skills and numbers to their declining birth rates.
You've made so many good points here. I would not say you're too sensitive. In fact, I would say that people who say this to you aren't sensitive enough or just simply don't have the facts and experience that Asian people (esp in countries that have been colonized before or are developing economies) have. I think it's really important for people in the West to learn to see from a different perspective.
It has been hard for me to voice these thoughts I shared with you, partly because I had a white American male as a partner before. But I can't keep quiet about my views because I think they are totally valid from the perspective of who I am. I'm glad that you are on the same page.
I would definitely like to hear more about the history of how the U.S. dollar became the dominant currency around the world. I recently visited an exhibition in a Japanese museum and learned about a meeting among U.S., European and Japanese finance ministers in the 80s (?) that made the Yen more expensive against the U.S.$ to address the trade imbalances. I don't know all the details but this was the first time I became aware of artificial "bullying" being made by the U.S. to tip the balance of trade and therefore, national power across the globe.
It's also true that each nation has its own rights to set immigration policies. One of the "darker" sides of the U.S. policy of welcoming immigrants has to do with the economic value of migrant labor. Because rich people lost their rights to slave labor after the Civil War, immigrants were used to make up for that, doing the dirty jobs that Americans wouldn't want to do themselves.
But when Americans travel abroad and wish to settle down, many do so from a privileged position, installing their colonial, entitled mentality to wherever they claim a piece of land or right to live. Not all of them do so, but it seems to me that those who have managed to settle in "cheap" countries like yours and Thailand tend to have this colonial mentality.
Thank you for your compassionate and realistic post, Elizabeth. ♥️ To add to the conversation, the US’ history is one of constant collective movements that are sometimes short lived, sometimes span decades or centuries, but often result in changes big and small. You mentioned not being sure of exactly what you wanted to have taken from your post. I read it as your desire to encourage.
Yes! Mostly to encourage those who can't or won't leave the US. Many would probably feel they are living in hell or something, and being left behind. It doesn't have to be like that. I feel for them cos I went through the same feelings, with many of my relatives giving me the "Malaysia no hope" speech and moving abroad.
Like most of the Americans you spoke with I have a lot of doubt that the Left and the Right can unite to make a change.
However, I think it's very possible for many people who are currently part of the left and the right to unite. The two parties, taken as a whole, are naturally opposed to each other. But when you look at them as collections of individual people, I think there are many who would be willing to put real change over party affiliation.
Personally, I don’t find patriotism a value. Countries become bad ones all the time. When that happens citizens can either stay and fight or leave. Most often, as now, most people stay and few people leave. But you can only fight if you stand a chance of winning, and governments are so powerful now that they can just pummel those who stay instead. If everyone could easily leave instead, it would disempower bad governments, and empower the ones they move to.
Early on, in an “America to everywhere else” exodus, they would have a lot of money and bring it to a place where the cost of living is lower, and that might seem like they are coasting, but they are spending their money in the local economy which contributes much more to it than earning money there. And eventually they would have to earn a living there too, growing the economy of the place they move to and contribute to. We saw this when the Georgia economy blew up after Russians fled there, benefitting everyone.
Personally I will stay and fight but only until it seems like the fight might be lost. I don’t plan to sit around and allow my family to be destroyed and I don’t think anyone should. We’ve seen that play out horribly time and time again throughout human history. Everyone shouldn’t just stay in the country they are born in because they were born there. They should be able to move to someplace better. That’s how nearly every American got there! They fled a bad place with the hope of creating a better one. And they did!
Now it might need to happen again. In America and elsewhere.
I understand what you mean by patriotism. I actually chose to give up an Australia PR to return to Malaysia. I did that not because I'm patriotic, but because of the selfish but very logical reason that Malaysia just gives me a better standard and quality of life than Australia (as hard as it is to believe for some people).
I think the main difference for some Chinese (not all) is that they're just surprised Americans are giving up so quickly on their country. Yes, they do have people from their country who move to other countries, but in general many are very patriotic to their country. (Honestly ,one of the defining features of China's Chinese is that their nationalism and patriotism can be a tad scary to us Nanyang Chinese.)
To be honest, I really don't think Americans (US folks) are at that desperate stage of flight yet. They are not refugees of a war; they are economic refugees, maybe.
But they're probably going to get a rude shock if they try to move to countries with strict immigration policies like China or Malaysia, because they need to be able to proof that they can contribute to the country before they can settle.
In Malaysia, the digital nomad visa exists, but it's just for a few months. Retirees are welcomed, but they need to part with a big chunk of money for the privilege. China ... well, that's a whole other ball game.
It's just much harder for Americans to migrate than they think. And even if they do get there, life isn't necessarily going to be easier.
PS: Also I think many seem to have the impression that I'm frowning on them even immigrating. I'm actually talking about their use of geo arbitrage, which their birth country gave them, to live a better life in poorer countries. Without this, they can't do it. This leaves people of the country they're going to very, very uneasy.
That makes sense. I think American culture can be explained a lot by our history—many who settled in America did so because they left a worse place. Whereas China, as you've written about, has a very different history influencing their own reasons for staying.
I expect many who do leave do so for practical reasons just like you did! Because they could make more money in a place or spend less money in a place. I agree that it's problematic that Americans can take their rich salaries and move to inexpensive countries, while those living in inexpensive countries couldn't take their salaries to America. When borders were more open, they could move to America and expect to earn a lot more, but that's tricky now. They could however, have a remote job from an American company.
I do think the geoarbitrage will even out over time. If rich people keep moving to less expensive places, and less expensive countries can have rich customers outside the country, then the less expensive countries become richer. I was reading, for example, that this is why the Malaysian healthcare system is one of the best in the world, because if you live anywhere in SE Asia and you want to be a doctor, you'll be highest paid in Malaysia, so why not go there? And Malaysia accepts medical degrees from reputable institutions around the world. As a result, Malaysia has medical tourism! Meaning they can charge US prices from US customers who fly there to get better medical treatment.
Well said. I’ve had similar conversation guiding American tourists around Tokyo. They seem genuinely surprised when I tell them they can only move here if they are useful to Japan.
You read my mind 😉😆. The problem I have with these people who want to move to Malaysia is many think they can just kick back their shoes and enjoy life. It's important to also contribute back to your host country in terms of taxes, not just buying things in our economy.
It’s funny that you said that Americans need to come together. You think like Joe Biden in this respect. He said the same thing over and over again in his speeches. But it seems that it’s easier said than done. People really have very different views of the facts.
I was under the impression that a lot of Chinese people are moving to Malaysia now. I haven’t heard about (non-ethnic Chinese) Americans doing it, but I must confess that I’ve wanted to do the same thing if I could get a good job there. I’m interested in all the different dialects and languages there (and the lower cost of living). But the job issue was a dealbreaker. There don’t seem to be good opportunities for me.
“because they don’t see each other as fellow countrymen but as enemies.”
Yes! And just like you said, that’s just the way it is in ‘Merica’ now and I wouldn’t have it any other way.
When you advocate slicing off healthy prepubescent mammary glands and defend calling it some kind of ‘care’ you’re the epitome of evil and deserve to die an early painful death.
No compromise, no quarter, take a side and Fight!
You don’t compromise with evil, you annihilate it.
“It’s probably the last thing my American readers want to hear right now, but I just want to say that change can happen if you’re united.” It may not be what everyone wants to hear, but it’s something that should be said. And listened to, if we’re going to have real hope of changing the country for the better. Thank you for sharing these thoughts, Elizabeth.
I understand the sentiment but I can’t help but feel that this is reading far too much into online escapism. Europeans can pen 10,000 such stories a day and so can Americans. Here are a few uncomfortable facts:
1. First American law that barred entry to a specific ethnicity or national origin was the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882.
2. Chinese citizens are the fastest growing population crossing the U.S.-Mexico border.
3. Any Vancouver resident will tell you that Chinese citizens who can move their money out of China has quickly done so. They all moved to Vancouver.
So I have to take this claim with a grain of salt that the Chinese rebuke Americans for wanting to come because they should stay and protect their country. Well…a lot of Chinese are already here and trying to come illegally. What’s the response to this?
I think that’s ducking the question. The AI translation even says “We Chinese people”, which by definition paints with a broad brush. Using one person’s quote to form the bedrock of an entire post leads to the same error. These are all broad brushes and this is not uniquely American as I have highlighted with China’s own citizens.
I am not sure what you are getting either. I mean, he may say "We the Chinese people" but that doesn't mean he represents the Chinese people? So what if he thinks this way?
Also, I think you are totally missing the nuance or point of my message. It's true, some Chinese are immigrating abroad, and China doesn't accept immigrants. Both are true. So what point are you trying to convey? That it's unfair for the Chinese to insist on no immigration to their country? Because it is their country so they can do whatever they want. 🤷
Anyway, the point on my essay is not to harp on immigration but how it feels like to have people view us as a place to escape to so they can have lives of luxury. It's not politically correct, but it is what it is. And I wrote this essay mostly to encourage Americans not to give up on their country and that it's worth staying. If the message isn't clear, then I hope I made it clear now.
Anyway my ancestors were here since the Ming dynasty. I am in every way a Malaysian, just because I am Chinese shouldn't make me any different. And my country had a long history of colonisation so all these feelings are related to that.
Thanks for reading my comment. If your point was that it’s hard to settle in another country, I agree. On the other hand, there are people who do successfully settle in another country.
Also, might I add a few points in favour of welcoming migrants. Throughout human history, people have long moved from place to place. In fact, I would argue that migration should be seen as a “human right”. When migrants successfully settle in another country, they bring lots of benefit to the host country. (Just as Chinese migrants to Malaysia have benefited the Bumiputera.) They also benefit their ho e country through remittances (lots of Malaysian Chinese have sent financial aid to their relatives in China at a time when China needed it most.) And when migrants return to their home country (which you yourself have done), they bring their experiences back either them, helping their home country learn from other nations.
So immigration is “twice blest”, it blesses both the host country and the home country. We should do our best to welcome migrants and help them settle in their adopted countries.
PS: “migration is a human right” doesn’t mean unregulated migration. Just like “free trade” is subject to rules like tariffs, etc. it just means having policies that facilitate reasonable levels of migration, while keeping out terrorists and fanatics.
This is a very brave post. Thank you for sharing what some of the Chinese netizens are saying, especially for people like me who do not have access to it.
As usual, with such a hot and loaded topic, there's no easy answer. I agreed with some of your points and not some. Nevertheless, I also agree with Elle that patriotism is not exactly a good thing, what with my background and all it's complicated, but I believe in loving your people and the place where you're born. But there is no need to exclude others who aren't from there before. But of course I'm an idealistic dreamer....
Nice post, but you seem to be utterly ignoring the fact that American migration to China is almost entirely restricted to online chatter, while hundreds of thousands of Chinese people have been immigrating in recent years to the US, often illegally and at great personal risk, and presumably many more would if they could. (https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/chinese-immigrants-united-states)
The idea of "rooted" Chinese/Malaysians/whatever versus "rootless colonizing white people/Americans" may be comforting but just doesn't seem to have much to do with reality.
But this post is not about immigration and you guys always bring up the same thing 🤣. now I am wondering what's the cause of this defensiveness? Does it offend you guys that despite the immigration you speak of, countries like China still have strict immigration rules? I don't get it 😆
Well said. And it needed to be said. Hard truths must be told.
However, I'm a big believer in how entrenched cultural values are. And let's face it, the bulk of Americans living in America now (unless they are of African origin or are native Americans) all descended from people who fled their homelands to live somewhere else instead of staying to fight to make it better. That's part of the American myth - I can always go somewhere else to make a better life for myself. And it's all part of the deep seated idea of individualism - which is not about sacrificing yourself for the greater good but thinking only of your own good.
Yup, and it's not as if Americans have not done this before 😉
Hah! You read my mind. I amended my post and you cross posted. :-)
Malaysians are also made up of immigrants. But I suspect it's also because we are like the Chinese, community focused rather than individualistic.
Haha I saw!
When I read this very eloquently written essay, I kept nodding my head, because you have spoken about things that I've kept in my mind but found difficult to explain to other Americans. As I grew up in a British colony, I can see the dynamics between the colonizers and the colonized on an instinctual level. A few years ago, my ex started to play with the idea of moving to Thailand, and moved ever closer to his dream year by year while betraying me and flaunting what a great life he could have even though he was not rich. I reacted to his "discovery" of this "utopia" with cynicism. I felt that he was approaching this in the spirit of a white colonialist. After visiting with him, I saw how the local people fawned for the American and European tourists and expats -- for their own survival. (I can tell that they are just trying to tolerate them because they need them for the economy.) Secretly I felt sorry for them having to bow to the neo-colonialists. I have also heard tons of Americans saying they want to move to Asia -- and yes, there's even a YT channel that talks exclusively about moving to Malaysia to live like a King. They wouldn't want to hear that Asians want them there only because they can bring money in with their strong currency. Perhaps they don't even care. In some expat forums I have seen Westerners (Americans, Australians, etc.) assuming they can just go live in a European country as a digital nomad without paying local tax. The most entitled (and disgusting) branch of this neo-colonialism (I'm not sure if this word exists; if not, I just coined it?... sorry, I'm too exhausted to do research) is those "Passport Bros." My ex became one, and hence, he became my "ex." I remember telling him how I felt bad about getting a massage in Thailand for just a few US dollars... I felt this power imbalance as if reliving my colonized past but with my position swapped. My conscience didn't feel so good. But he could not understand why I wouldn't take advantage of the situation.
I appreciate your perspective of how Malaysians stay to work toward the kind of society they want to see, with lots of ups and downs, despite the difficulties.
I do believe the majority of Americans are staying due to the lack of choices and conditions to move, but I don't have the numbers. From the noises around the Internet, it seems an increasingly number are wanting to leave. This makes me feel that when the going gets tough, they just 拍拍屁股 then leave. Perhaps the desire of moving to greener pastures is ingrained in the American psyche. The country is so young compared with the rest of the world, and people have such amnesia of their history. So the idea of sticking together and uniting to fight for what's best for citizens isn't a strong one.
I agree that the polarized political bickering needs to stop in order for people to be united. But at this moment, too much damage has been made, and we have very dangerous sociopaths at the top of the government. So the worse probably will happen before the Tao☯️ brings everything back into balance again.
> I felt that he was approaching this in the spirit of a white colonialist.
Really impactful words. I think a lot of these folks moving to Asia do not realise that they can come off this way, especially if they crow non-stop about how bloody cheap we are.
I'm so glad you get it because honestly I'm sure a lot of people are saying I'm being too sensitive.
Honestly, it's very difficult to put into words the feelings I go through when I see people using geo arbitrage to get a more luxurious life in my country.
On the one hand, they were not the ones who created this unfair financial system that has trapped my country. (I know too much about how dollar dominance came to be, etc, to view it neutrally.) On the other hand, I'm turned off that they dislike their country so much and yet do not acknowledge the privilege it has given them. And yet, it's not about them being unpatriotic but something else. Like, somehow, they're using us in some way.... like I said, it's pretty difficult to say this clearly to people because people who firmly believe they can simply move to a country that is cheaper would get defensive that a descendant of immigrants had the gall to challenge their idea that they can move countries for a better life.
It's just not the same time like that of the time of the Mayflower ship (and honestly, that immigration wave wasn't exactly great for Native Americans at all) or even my ancestors who fled the collapse of the Ming dynasty to "Nanyang".
Countries have borders and immigration rules now, even little Malaysia, and most certainly China who was very upfront about them not being a country open to immigration.
What I find is that these folks seem upset that we have these rules when people from China and Malaysia immigrate freely abroad.
To me, every country has a right to decide for themselves, and no one is entitled to march over to a countries without abiding by these restrictions and rules. A country has a right not to accept migrants. If they have a problem with Chinese immigrants, they need to come up with immigration rules too. But they can't or won't because immigrants bring them money and add to skills and numbers to their declining birth rates.
You've made so many good points here. I would not say you're too sensitive. In fact, I would say that people who say this to you aren't sensitive enough or just simply don't have the facts and experience that Asian people (esp in countries that have been colonized before or are developing economies) have. I think it's really important for people in the West to learn to see from a different perspective.
It has been hard for me to voice these thoughts I shared with you, partly because I had a white American male as a partner before. But I can't keep quiet about my views because I think they are totally valid from the perspective of who I am. I'm glad that you are on the same page.
I would definitely like to hear more about the history of how the U.S. dollar became the dominant currency around the world. I recently visited an exhibition in a Japanese museum and learned about a meeting among U.S., European and Japanese finance ministers in the 80s (?) that made the Yen more expensive against the U.S.$ to address the trade imbalances. I don't know all the details but this was the first time I became aware of artificial "bullying" being made by the U.S. to tip the balance of trade and therefore, national power across the globe.
It's also true that each nation has its own rights to set immigration policies. One of the "darker" sides of the U.S. policy of welcoming immigrants has to do with the economic value of migrant labor. Because rich people lost their rights to slave labor after the Civil War, immigrants were used to make up for that, doing the dirty jobs that Americans wouldn't want to do themselves.
But when Americans travel abroad and wish to settle down, many do so from a privileged position, installing their colonial, entitled mentality to wherever they claim a piece of land or right to live. Not all of them do so, but it seems to me that those who have managed to settle in "cheap" countries like yours and Thailand tend to have this colonial mentality.
"It’s probably the last thing my American readers want to hear right now,"
Sure, a bunch may not WANT to hear, but it's the thing many Americans NEED to hear.
Thank you for your compassionate and realistic post, Elizabeth. ♥️ To add to the conversation, the US’ history is one of constant collective movements that are sometimes short lived, sometimes span decades or centuries, but often result in changes big and small. You mentioned not being sure of exactly what you wanted to have taken from your post. I read it as your desire to encourage.
Yes! Mostly to encourage those who can't or won't leave the US. Many would probably feel they are living in hell or something, and being left behind. It doesn't have to be like that. I feel for them cos I went through the same feelings, with many of my relatives giving me the "Malaysia no hope" speech and moving abroad.
Like most of the Americans you spoke with I have a lot of doubt that the Left and the Right can unite to make a change.
However, I think it's very possible for many people who are currently part of the left and the right to unite. The two parties, taken as a whole, are naturally opposed to each other. But when you look at them as collections of individual people, I think there are many who would be willing to put real change over party affiliation.
I mean, I thought the same too. But Islamists literally marched with progressives at one point in my country. It could happen!
Personally, I don’t find patriotism a value. Countries become bad ones all the time. When that happens citizens can either stay and fight or leave. Most often, as now, most people stay and few people leave. But you can only fight if you stand a chance of winning, and governments are so powerful now that they can just pummel those who stay instead. If everyone could easily leave instead, it would disempower bad governments, and empower the ones they move to.
Early on, in an “America to everywhere else” exodus, they would have a lot of money and bring it to a place where the cost of living is lower, and that might seem like they are coasting, but they are spending their money in the local economy which contributes much more to it than earning money there. And eventually they would have to earn a living there too, growing the economy of the place they move to and contribute to. We saw this when the Georgia economy blew up after Russians fled there, benefitting everyone.
Personally I will stay and fight but only until it seems like the fight might be lost. I don’t plan to sit around and allow my family to be destroyed and I don’t think anyone should. We’ve seen that play out horribly time and time again throughout human history. Everyone shouldn’t just stay in the country they are born in because they were born there. They should be able to move to someplace better. That’s how nearly every American got there! They fled a bad place with the hope of creating a better one. And they did!
Now it might need to happen again. In America and elsewhere.
I understand what you mean by patriotism. I actually chose to give up an Australia PR to return to Malaysia. I did that not because I'm patriotic, but because of the selfish but very logical reason that Malaysia just gives me a better standard and quality of life than Australia (as hard as it is to believe for some people).
I think the main difference for some Chinese (not all) is that they're just surprised Americans are giving up so quickly on their country. Yes, they do have people from their country who move to other countries, but in general many are very patriotic to their country. (Honestly ,one of the defining features of China's Chinese is that their nationalism and patriotism can be a tad scary to us Nanyang Chinese.)
To be honest, I really don't think Americans (US folks) are at that desperate stage of flight yet. They are not refugees of a war; they are economic refugees, maybe.
But they're probably going to get a rude shock if they try to move to countries with strict immigration policies like China or Malaysia, because they need to be able to proof that they can contribute to the country before they can settle.
In Malaysia, the digital nomad visa exists, but it's just for a few months. Retirees are welcomed, but they need to part with a big chunk of money for the privilege. China ... well, that's a whole other ball game.
It's just much harder for Americans to migrate than they think. And even if they do get there, life isn't necessarily going to be easier.
PS: Also I think many seem to have the impression that I'm frowning on them even immigrating. I'm actually talking about their use of geo arbitrage, which their birth country gave them, to live a better life in poorer countries. Without this, they can't do it. This leaves people of the country they're going to very, very uneasy.
That makes sense. I think American culture can be explained a lot by our history—many who settled in America did so because they left a worse place. Whereas China, as you've written about, has a very different history influencing their own reasons for staying.
I expect many who do leave do so for practical reasons just like you did! Because they could make more money in a place or spend less money in a place. I agree that it's problematic that Americans can take their rich salaries and move to inexpensive countries, while those living in inexpensive countries couldn't take their salaries to America. When borders were more open, they could move to America and expect to earn a lot more, but that's tricky now. They could however, have a remote job from an American company.
I do think the geoarbitrage will even out over time. If rich people keep moving to less expensive places, and less expensive countries can have rich customers outside the country, then the less expensive countries become richer. I was reading, for example, that this is why the Malaysian healthcare system is one of the best in the world, because if you live anywhere in SE Asia and you want to be a doctor, you'll be highest paid in Malaysia, so why not go there? And Malaysia accepts medical degrees from reputable institutions around the world. As a result, Malaysia has medical tourism! Meaning they can charge US prices from US customers who fly there to get better medical treatment.
Well said. I’ve had similar conversation guiding American tourists around Tokyo. They seem genuinely surprised when I tell them they can only move here if they are useful to Japan.
You read my mind 😉😆. The problem I have with these people who want to move to Malaysia is many think they can just kick back their shoes and enjoy life. It's important to also contribute back to your host country in terms of taxes, not just buying things in our economy.
such people are astonishing!
A part of me understand the desire. But honestly, living in China is harder than they think and won't solve their problems.
it's childish, I bet these people have no concept of the history or culture of China or Malaysia.
I don't think they want to. They just want to live in our luxury condos for cheap thanks to geo arbitrage 😉😆
It’s funny that you said that Americans need to come together. You think like Joe Biden in this respect. He said the same thing over and over again in his speeches. But it seems that it’s easier said than done. People really have very different views of the facts.
I was under the impression that a lot of Chinese people are moving to Malaysia now. I haven’t heard about (non-ethnic Chinese) Americans doing it, but I must confess that I’ve wanted to do the same thing if I could get a good job there. I’m interested in all the different dialects and languages there (and the lower cost of living). But the job issue was a dealbreaker. There don’t seem to be good opportunities for me.
“because they don’t see each other as fellow countrymen but as enemies.”
Yes! And just like you said, that’s just the way it is in ‘Merica’ now and I wouldn’t have it any other way.
When you advocate slicing off healthy prepubescent mammary glands and defend calling it some kind of ‘care’ you’re the epitome of evil and deserve to die an early painful death.
No compromise, no quarter, take a side and Fight!
You don’t compromise with evil, you annihilate it.
“It’s probably the last thing my American readers want to hear right now, but I just want to say that change can happen if you’re united.” It may not be what everyone wants to hear, but it’s something that should be said. And listened to, if we’re going to have real hope of changing the country for the better. Thank you for sharing these thoughts, Elizabeth.
I understand the sentiment but I can’t help but feel that this is reading far too much into online escapism. Europeans can pen 10,000 such stories a day and so can Americans. Here are a few uncomfortable facts:
1. First American law that barred entry to a specific ethnicity or national origin was the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882.
2. Chinese citizens are the fastest growing population crossing the U.S.-Mexico border.
3. Any Vancouver resident will tell you that Chinese citizens who can move their money out of China has quickly done so. They all moved to Vancouver.
So I have to take this claim with a grain of salt that the Chinese rebuke Americans for wanting to come because they should stay and protect their country. Well…a lot of Chinese are already here and trying to come illegally. What’s the response to this?
The Chinese people are not one block with one opinion. This quote is just for one person.
I think that’s ducking the question. The AI translation even says “We Chinese people”, which by definition paints with a broad brush. Using one person’s quote to form the bedrock of an entire post leads to the same error. These are all broad brushes and this is not uniquely American as I have highlighted with China’s own citizens.
I am not sure what you are getting either. I mean, he may say "We the Chinese people" but that doesn't mean he represents the Chinese people? So what if he thinks this way?
Also, I think you are totally missing the nuance or point of my message. It's true, some Chinese are immigrating abroad, and China doesn't accept immigrants. Both are true. So what point are you trying to convey? That it's unfair for the Chinese to insist on no immigration to their country? Because it is their country so they can do whatever they want. 🤷
Anyway, the point on my essay is not to harp on immigration but how it feels like to have people view us as a place to escape to so they can have lives of luxury. It's not politically correct, but it is what it is. And I wrote this essay mostly to encourage Americans not to give up on their country and that it's worth staying. If the message isn't clear, then I hope I made it clear now.
I feel the Malaysian Chinese are in no position to complain about other people wanting to settle in Malaysia. Just think about it!
Anyway my ancestors were here since the Ming dynasty. I am in every way a Malaysian, just because I am Chinese shouldn't make me any different. And my country had a long history of colonisation so all these feelings are related to that.
I didn't say it was right, I said it gave me mixed feelings.
Thanks for reading my comment. If your point was that it’s hard to settle in another country, I agree. On the other hand, there are people who do successfully settle in another country.
Also, might I add a few points in favour of welcoming migrants. Throughout human history, people have long moved from place to place. In fact, I would argue that migration should be seen as a “human right”. When migrants successfully settle in another country, they bring lots of benefit to the host country. (Just as Chinese migrants to Malaysia have benefited the Bumiputera.) They also benefit their ho e country through remittances (lots of Malaysian Chinese have sent financial aid to their relatives in China at a time when China needed it most.) And when migrants return to their home country (which you yourself have done), they bring their experiences back either them, helping their home country learn from other nations.
So immigration is “twice blest”, it blesses both the host country and the home country. We should do our best to welcome migrants and help them settle in their adopted countries.
PS: “migration is a human right” doesn’t mean unregulated migration. Just like “free trade” is subject to rules like tariffs, etc. it just means having policies that facilitate reasonable levels of migration, while keeping out terrorists and fanatics.
This is a very brave post. Thank you for sharing what some of the Chinese netizens are saying, especially for people like me who do not have access to it.
As usual, with such a hot and loaded topic, there's no easy answer. I agreed with some of your points and not some. Nevertheless, I also agree with Elle that patriotism is not exactly a good thing, what with my background and all it's complicated, but I believe in loving your people and the place where you're born. But there is no need to exclude others who aren't from there before. But of course I'm an idealistic dreamer....
Reading something like this is educational. I have learned by reading an article written by someone who has stated an opinion or viewpoint eloquently.
Nice post, but you seem to be utterly ignoring the fact that American migration to China is almost entirely restricted to online chatter, while hundreds of thousands of Chinese people have been immigrating in recent years to the US, often illegally and at great personal risk, and presumably many more would if they could. (https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/chinese-immigrants-united-states)
The idea of "rooted" Chinese/Malaysians/whatever versus "rootless colonizing white people/Americans" may be comforting but just doesn't seem to have much to do with reality.
But this post is not about immigration and you guys always bring up the same thing 🤣. now I am wondering what's the cause of this defensiveness? Does it offend you guys that despite the immigration you speak of, countries like China still have strict immigration rules? I don't get it 😆